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Thursday, January 26, 2006

Baxley Kickoff Video

Yesterday I mentioned a video of Libertarian candidate Loretta Nall articulating her campaign message. In that same vein, I thought I'd link to a video of Lucy Baxley's Jan 4 campaign kickoff.

You can watch the video of the speech or just read the text.

And I'll keep an eye out for videos of other candidates to keep things even. And let me know if there are video clips of other Alabama politicians floating around the net.

49 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see that Baxley wasn't afraid to use the G-word ("God"). Her fellow feminist Sue Bell Cobb resorted to "the divine" in her announcement speech for the race of Chief Justice. I guess this is Alabama, so even feminist Democrats have to make some rhetorical gesture toward evangelicals...

8:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I expect someone will object to the feminist designation above, but how else to explain Baxley's bizarre claim that the next governor should be a woman? In fact, the only part of her speech in bold on the website is "I am that woman."

Baxley is trapped in that typical feminist contradiction:

On the one hand, as a woman, she can do anything that a man can do. Don't call her weaker; don't say she should obey Titus 2 and be a keeper at home. On that other hand, vote for her because she is a woman, who needs special treatment because she can't do what a man can do.

With that kind of fuzzy, misanthropic thinking between her ears, it's hard to imagine why any self-respecting man would vote for her.

8:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's give Lucy the benefit of the doubt and take her at her word. What is her fundamental operating principle? According to her kickoff speech, it is:

From the time I was a little girl, I took to heart a bible verse I was taught in church. It is the creed I always strive to follow –

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and, Love your neighbor as yourself." [Luke 10:27]

There is nothing complicated about that. Put God first in everything you do, trust His judgment...


Okay, Lucy, let's apply this.

Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." [John 14:15] And what does he command older women like Lucy to do?

"Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled." [Titus 2:3-5]

Lucy, you say you "always strive to follow" the command to love God and that you "trust His judgment." Do you trust God enough to obey, to give up your bid for elective office and become a homemaker?

If not, at least please stop taking his name in vain and using it for your own political ambitions.

8:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are these people really going to point out commandment breaking? This has to be Roy Moore's goons at it again. Of course, when your campaign has no future ideas and only depends on the ideas of the past, how else can you win?

12:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My God, save us from these Neandrathals!

12:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The prior poster is incorrect when he claims that the statement in Titus 2:3-5 is a commandment of Christ. Our Savior said no such thing. The referenced passage is actually a statement of Paul in a letter to Titus.

3:41:00 PM  
Anonymous A Real Man said...

No one is going to object to your calling them feminists. You can hurl around that label as much as you want. Call them Liberal and The only thing objectable is your desire to throw them out of the church and stone them to death for seeking elected office.

It's a wonder that Kay Ivey and Beth Chapman can get on the ballot when these guys are in the primary electorate. I wonder if Harri Anne Smith found God and realized she belongs in the kitchen. I wonder if these guys even speak to their female co-workers. Or do they even hold jobs? Do they have wives to command? Or do they have blow-up love-dolls they shout at while heating up their Hungry Man. Is microwave use a sin?

I also wonder if these morons realize how unpopular their opinions are. Do they know that even in Alabama polling shows that a nameless woman would beat a nameless man by over 20 points in a hypothetical election. You lose. Go home and beat your pretend wife you moron.

4:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no matter what the banner says behind her in the picture (leadership, integrity) no one will believe it. she is owned lock stock and barrell by union goon paul hubbert. he is corrupt to the core, and may not be out of harms way from federal grand jury.

4:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good rumor. Isn't it nice to be able to knowingly commit libel behind the veil of anonymity.

If Paul Hubbert is a Union Goon, I'm a giraffe. The guy is a teacher turned school superintendent. I'm sorry if you don't like book lernin', but all he does is represent the teachers of Alabama. Alabama ranks 42nd in the country in per-student education expenditures, and the only reason it's that high and not 49 like it used to be is PAUL HUBBERT. You should be thanking him for working so hard to educate our children instead of calling him names.

4:55:00 PM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

Anonymous, are you seriously implying that women are one-trick ponies? Is it seriously so hard to believe that we would be able to hold a job and still be able to keep a household together? I don't see anything in the Bible that says a woman can't do anything outside of the home IN ADDITION TO what is listed in the verse you quoted. And I also don't see anything that says that her husband can't get off of his happy rear end and help out. And as a previous poster pointed out, it isn't a commandment of Christ. Paul wrote it.

I don't know about you, but my own mother and grandmothers all did an excellent job of working a full-time job AND managing a household. MY grandfather, in fact, has never had to cook his own meal, short of popping one of her pre-made, home-cooked meals in the microwave when she was unable to do it herself. Not only do I have a job (working for a church that happens to also have a darn good female associate pastor, I might add), I also cook and clean, manage the family budget, and will soon begin raising our first child, requiring me to be a teacher, preacher, therapist, CPA, and a doctor, among other things. Women are far from weak, and they should be treated with respect, as the Bible also commands.

For someone so quick to quote the Bible, I would wonder if he read the whole thing, including Proverbs 31:13-27, Genesis 2:18 (in which GOD, not Paul, declares woman as a "helper comparable to [man]"), Epesians 5:8 (where a man must love his wife as he loves himself), and Mark 10:7-8 (where Jesus declares a man and his wife as "one flesh").

5:20:00 PM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

While Hubbert's intentions are good, I don't recall voting for him. So I don't know what business he has in the legislature. That's the only real problem that I have with lobbyists and special interests. And if I'm not mistaken, the AEA is a union.

Either way, the whole claim that Baxley is connected to Hubbert would have been better made if not by an anonymous coward and had provided some better facts other than blind accusations.

I'm not saying that she is or isn't. I just think that blurting out unfounded assumptions under the veil of anonymity isn't the best way to pose an argument.

5:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The libel I'm refering to above is that he "may not be out of harms way from federal grand jury." Not that he's a goon. That's just namecalling, which is childish, but not terrible.

7:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The defensive feminists miss the point. Baxley brought up the Bible and claimed to follow it as well as to trust God's judgment in her kick-off speech. That makes her refusal to follow it fair game for criticism.

The bottom line is the Baxley is trying to use God for an electoral boost rather than follow his commands even when they conflict with her personal desires.

Just because Baxley is a woman doesn't mean she should get a free pass for religious hypocricy.

7:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at me! I am a conservative Christian in Alabama! I think women ought to be barefoot and pregnant! They should never have an opinion! They should never run for office (unless as a Republican)!

You guys are pathetic. Lt. Gov. Baxley has served this state well, and she will make a great governor.

Oh, by the way, please tell me if any of you conservative morons are wearing clothes made of separate fibers. In the Old Testament, I believe you could be killed for that. The same goes for touching the skin of a dead pig (football, anyone?) or planting two different crops beside each other in the same field. So, my question is, do I need to call the police to have you stoned or can the community members of this blog do it?

Please, let me know. I want to make sure you are in accordance.

8:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before the immediately previous poster [mis]quotes the Bible again, she should take some time to actually read it. That's a better way to know what it says rather than passing along rumors about its contents spread by anti-Christian bigots.

10:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back to Baxley: Your sex is _not_ a good enough reason to vote for you. In fact, both a youth-led culture and women ruling over men are signs of God's judgment on a nation that has gone astray.

See, for example, Isaiah Chapter 3, especially verse 12:

My people -- infants are their oppressors,
and women rule over them.
O my people, your guides mislead you....

10:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets take the moron's point as actually semi-valid:

Lucy Baxley is going to have a hard time winning this election if she relies solely on her gender.

And he's right: the fibers verse is the blending of cotton with wool. Not artificial with natural. And footballs are no longer made of pig skins. Plus, there's no punishment for violation of these commandments. On the flip-side, you know what a commandment is. Paul's letters are not commandments. Isaiah's prophecies are not commandments.

11:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just watched Lucy's kickoff video and then I watched Nall's video and while I was voting for Lucy before...I am now voting for Nall.

What a POWERHOUSE!!

Lucy and the Repubs are going to have their hands full with that dynamite young lady.

7:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul's letters are no less God's inspired word than the Gospels, the Law and the Prophets. If you pick and choose what you want to obey in the Bible -- as many of the posters above are doing -- you are putting yourself and your judgment above God. You are making yourself your own God.

That is a violation of the first commandment: "You shall have no other gods...." It's also the same trap Adam and Eve fell into, after the serpent said, "You shall be as God.... [if you only will disobey his command]."

The Genesis account of the fall of man shows three sinners and three curses that match the sin. It also explains feminism.

Adam's curse was that his work would be hard, that he would make a profit from his labor only with much toil. Eve's curse was that she would have much pain in childbearing and that she would desire her husband but that he would rule over her. The serpent's curse was to be forced to crawl on its belly in the ground and to one day have its head crushed by Christ.

Now how does the feminist respond to the Genesis account? Most deny its historic truth. But even those who deny it prove it by their actions.

In their desire to rule over men, women make some progress but they ultimately fail. Before feminism, women had to bear only the curse of Eve. Since feminism, women have had to bear the curses of Adam and of Eve while their husbands (or fathers, as the case may be) have slacked off.

In fact, women have been tricked so successfully by feminism that not only do they bear two curses instead of one but they also boast in it.

The truth is that women's liberation has freed men, not women. And men rule over "liberated" women with far more ease today than they did back when they had to provide fully for the women in their household or face church discipline and social stigma.

This unacknowledged reality -- that feminism has enslaved rather than liberated women -- is, I think, what accounts for the bitterness seething beneath the surface of some of the comments by women in this thread.

7:13:00 AM  
Anonymous cloyd said...

everybody knows hubbert is a thief like siegelman besides being a union goon. everybody also knows hubbert and siegelman and john baker and couple of other stooges hand picked bill baxley years ago.
hubbert has fleeced alabama for 40 years because he buys idiots. this year, his purchase is lucy baxley and i hear he got her plenty cheap too. She aint the sharpest knife in the drawer, and probably not the most honest either.

10:04:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

I forget, Anonymous, that YOU and Moore apparently have never contradicted or failed to obey the Bible and its teachings. Apparently, we have officially found the only two people on this earth without sin. Forgive me, please, for my misunderstanding.

While we're at it, could you please point out where Baxley went so gosh darn wrong? I believe I may have already pointed out the previous errors in your interpretation of scripture.

10:11:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

To the person quoting Isaiah...

Are you saying that babies are evil?

And to the poster who said that the word of man is no less inspired than the word of GOD AS MAN, just who do you think you are? Are you honestly insinuating that the word of man has the same reverence and quality and prefection than a direct quote from GOD HIMSELF??? That's not only stupid from a Christian perspective, it's no less than blasphemy! Let me explain the difference. Or rather, let me let JESUS explain the difference:

First, count the number of times Jesus uses the phrase "I tell you the truth" througout the gospels. Do you think that this was mere coincidence, or do you think that there was a small possibility that the previous religious leaders may have twisted the truth in the past to the point that Jesus had to beat it into everyone's head that what He said was the truth? I count something around 79 times that the phrase was used. But you are free to check it for yourself. He also happened to have a warm little message for those religious leaders in Matthew 21:31-32.

Second, did you even bother to read Matthew chapter 5? There are several places where Jesus directly contradicts scriptures that are located earlier on. Why? Could it be that someone may have twisted something somewhere? There are also some very interesting confrontations throughout the gospels with religious leaders regarding the subjects of divorce, judgement, marriage, tithes, and taxes.

In Luke 1:3-4, Luke himself encourages the reader not to to learn and make certain for himself that what he reads is true, because that is what he himself has done. Luke, by the way, was a scientist of his day. He was not around during Jesus's time, but he did thoroughly investigate the live of Jesus to make sure that he had the story straight, and then he wrote down the most detailed of all the gospels. The fact that the Bible encourages us over and over again to make sure that we learn and investigate its contents is no mistake. It's almost as if God knew that its contents could one day be corrupted. The contents of the Bible have been changed over centuries by certain kings and translators, but that one particular message has remained intact, and it repeats over and over again. My personal belief is that Lucifer knows the Bible better than anyone, and what better way to spread false religion than though twisting those very words among God's people.

Jesus wasn't a fan of religious leaders, especially those with any amount of money or power, and vice versa. It stands to reason that not much has changed. I could imagine that Pat Robertson, of whom you are apparently a fan, would be set straight very quickly should he be put into a debate setting with the Son of God.

And one needs not pick and choose. There is no verse in the bible that says that a woman can not hold a place of authority. Otherwise, you would not have had people like Esther, who saved the Jews from destruction, and Deborah, who judged Israel. The passage in Genesis that you quoted is referring to the fact that a man's rule over his wife is not the way that God intended it to be. In fact, earlier in Genesis, God stated that he was creating a creature that was like man. I suspect you aren't married, and I wonder if you have been to a wedding, because a preacher will often note that the bone God chose to make woman came not from Adam's foot nor his head, so that she could rule over him or be ruled by him. Instead, the bone God used came from his side, so that they would be equals. The women here, and the real men, are not stating that women should "rule over men." They are stating that they should have the same opportunities, no more and no less. The punishment in Genesis directly states that women being ruled by men will be the sourse (not solution) to a woman's unhappiness. If it made life easier for her, it wouldn't be a very good curse, now would it?

But then, I guess it's easy for a coward to twist God's word and blaspheme under the veil of anonymity. The only one picking and chosing his scriptures appears to be you. And not only are you picking and chosing, you're adding and subtracting from the selected passages themselves!

10:56:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

I found some other goodies. Apparently, there was more than one warning that false teachings would come from those saying that they were prophets of God:

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

Also read Jeremiah 23:16.

Matthew 7:15 From Jesus's own lips.
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

By the way, I'd like to thank my pastor and associate pastors for helping me find the verses mentioned in this comment and all comments above.

11:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's funny that I am a progressive Christian, yet some jack-hole on this forum chose to label me as anti-Christian because I point out that there are PLENTY of parts of the Bible that conservatives (and others) eagerly ignore whenever they want. You pervert God's gospels with your attack on Baxley because she is a woman. People like you make me sick.

2:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Moore For Governor said...

LUCY DONT NEED A WATCH BECAUSE THERE IS A CLOCK ON THE STOVE!!!!

3:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucy was ok as aLt Gov.but we do not need her leading this state she needs to reconcider running for gov.

8:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read in the paper this morning that paul hubbert is the vice chairman of the ala democrat party. that means he rules the party. he is only listed as secretary of AEA but he rules it.
Of course lucy baxley is owned by paul hubbert, do you think she will do anyting joe turnham ask of her without checkng with the mafia boss hubbert. not much has changed in alabama or with the demomafiacrat party. I hope they all go to jail and im sure before november, some will.

11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some conservatives are idiots. See above post.

5:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Debbie Murphree said...

I was appalled at how backwards "some" of the posters in this forum are, when it comes to a woman's place in society. Do you "posters" actually believe that women cannot run for office without breaking Bible guidelines? I'm sure there were many women leaders in the Bible, and I know we have many good women leaders in the state of Alabama at this moment. I actually had to laugh in hysteria, at the purely unintelligent comments that were posted. Get real. I have made many a "Hamburger Helper" or "Hot pockets" meal, and I have never been accused of being a feminist strictly because of those actions. As a woman, wife, mother,grandmother, daughter, and candidate for public office, I have spent many a day, as nurse, chaueffer, domestic engineer, dishwasher, legal researcher, activist and Judicial reformer, as well as sales associate, community server, and tending to other ordinary "every day activities"which are too numerous to mention. Most women would agree with me, that if we didn't carry through with a lot of these responsibilities, they would go unattended. Women are not given due credit for their accomplishments, and running for public office is not a sign of weakness, or lack of faith in God or Jesus Christ, but a sign of a strong character, wanting to make a positive difference in what is quickly becoming a dangerous, oppressive, and careless society we live in.

12:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's disturbing to see the females' comments in this thread confirming the stereotypes about women being irrational, hysterical, etc. in their thinking. I cannot find among Ms. Murphree remarks, for example, even a single rational comment:

I was appalled at how backwards "some" of the posters in this forum are...

Calling something "backwards" is not a rational argument against it. This kind of attack means nothing more than the attacker just doesn't like what she is attacking.

I'm sure there were many women leaders in the Bible...

Another illogical comment. Personal feelings of certainly are no evidence of reality. If the writer so certain there are positive examples of women leading men in politics, she should give those examples.

I know we have many good women leaders in the state of Alabama at this moment.

Once again the writer confuses her personal feelings of certainty with actual evidence. Let me repeat: personal feelings of knowledge have no evidentiary value.

I actually had to laugh in hysteria...

Feminists used to complain that calling women hysterical was improper stereotyping. I guess I missed the memo that women are now supposed to embrace their feelings of hysteria.

...at the purely unintelligent comments that were posted.

Another illogical, irrational attack. Intelligence and reason are not the same. Smart people can argue in an irrational manner, and dull people can make a rational argument. So calling a comment "unintelligent" says nothing about its truth or falsity.

Most women would agree with me, that if we didn't carry through with a lot of these responsibilities, they would go unattended.

This is a pragmatic argument, not a principled one. The arguments made earlier in the discussion is that women running for office is contrary to the Bible. The logical way to disagree with that is to show from the Bible that the argument is mistaken.

Instead, the writer just says, in effect: We women must do these things because men won't. Attack men if you wish, but even if your misanthropy were correct in every regard, it would still do nothing to disprove the argument from the Bible made by earlier posters.

Women ... running for public office is not a sign of weakness, or lack of faith in God or Jesus Christ, but a sign of a strong character....

This comment is also not a logical response to prior arguments, because it begs the question.

If it is true, as a previous poster has said, quoting from the Bible, that God has called women to be keepers at home, then no amount of good intentions will make it a sign of good character for a woman to leave the home to run for political office.

The writer may deny the authority of the Bible and believe she has a right to make up her own ethical standard according to what she thinks feels right, but she has no right to think her personal feelings control what the Bible actually says.

If the Bible has been misquoted, then show that. Otherwise, just be honest and say that you don't think you should submit to biblical authority any more than you think you should submit to your husband.

That would at least be consistent. But trying to have it both ways (i.e. going by your feelings and claiming to follow the Bible) is not consistent and not rational.

11:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While we're at it, could you please point out where Baxley went so gosh darn wrong?

Here is another example: Baxley is disobeying the Bible and God she claims to follow by chopping her hair off to make it short like a man.

The Bible says clearly that it is a disgrace for women to have short hair, just as it is a disgrace for men to have long hair. The liberal feminists try to explain away the Bible's teaching on this subject by saying it was a local cultural situation that doesn't apply to us today.

But that's not what the Bible says. The Bible says that even "nature" (which, by definition is not culturally dependent) teaches that it is a disgrace for men to have long hair and for women to have short hair. The passage on point is 1 Corinthians 11:1-16. Some excerpts follow:

"...it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved..." [v. 6]

"Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her..." [v. 14-15]

"But if anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God." [v. 16]

Thus, according to the Bible, because Baxley has chopped her hair off, she has disgraced herself as a woman and acted in a manner contrary to God's word and his church.

I have no doubt that the feminists on this thread will respond in hysterical rage that these comments are backward, moronic, etc. But they can express as much horror and disgust as they like without changing the least letter of God's word.

The bottom line is that these feminists trust their own feelings more than God's word. And, unfortunately, that also appears to be the base for Baxley, who invited this whole discussion by claiming she she trusts God's judgment and makes her main aim in life loving God.

11:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, I'd like to thank my pastor and associate pastors for helping me find the verses mentioned in this comment and all comments above.

You mention that one of your associate pastors is a woman. When you brought your questions to her, did she remember to show you the following passage, which says you are to go to your husband for answers to spiritual questions? --

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law requires. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in the church...." [I Corinthians 14:34-35]

And did she point out to you that this instruction is not her opinion or Paul's opinion, but Christ's command? --

"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." [I Corinthians 14:37]

Jesus said, "Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me." [John 14:21]

Jesus also said that that your eternal destiny depends on such obedience: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." [Matthew 7:21]

So please don't be diverted from the straight and narrow path by the fool's errand of progressive politics.

11:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Debbie Murphree said...

Dear "anonymous"..and that's just what you are, a self serving "jerk" who would like to down the women who EVIDENTLY can make a positive difference. Like I said before, there are many womwen in office now, who have braved your kind of thinking and actually survived it! Take a look at top Government in this state, and you shall see what is actually going on in this "real world" rather than in your "backward thinking". If you are so brave as to want to attack women, come on out and show yourself, Mr. Anonymous. Why else would you be anonymous, other than to be afraid that others might recognize your name, or possibly know you, and be appalled that you would have such thinking. My father was a minister, and I certainly have grown up in the faith, and true Christianity. I do not push my religion on anyone. Is it possible that you are one of Moore's followers rather than Jesus's?

7:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you can't refute the message, attack the messenger.

Ms. Murphree knows the Bible calls her to "make a positive difference" in her own home rather than by leaving her home for politics. She is convicted by God's Word about this, but rather than repent, she is attacking the people who have brought God's Word to her.

Anonymity exists precisely to force people to face facts, reason, logic, evidence, etc. rather than feelings and personalities. We know it is doing its work in this case because Ms. Murphree is so angry and cannot offer a single rational response.

Ms. Murphree, politics requires reasoned and dispassionate discourse, which is much harder for women by their nature. Your comments, and those of your fellow feminists on this thread, are just the latest of evidence of this fact, because they are a triumph of passion over reason.

Sometimes it is appropriate for passion to overcome reason. But not in politics, where the consequences can be so grave for so many.

7:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You pervert God's gospels with your attack on Baxley because she is a woman. People like you make me sick.

Please stop reinforcing the stereotype that women don't think rationally. You can, should, and must.

Not a single comment above has attacked Baxley because she is a woman. No, Baxley has been attacked because she is a hypocrite. She claims in her kick-off speech to trust God's judgment and love him, but she refuses to obey him.

If Baxley wants to be a feminist and seek the position of the alpha male in Alabama politics, let her go for it. Who cares?

But she should not think she can do so while also claiming to be a pious Christian who trusts God's judgment and puts loving him first. That kind of hypocrisy and taking of God's name in vain shall not go unchallenged.

So if you're going to get sick about the whole matter, then get sick at Baxley; it is her hypocrisy that started this whole discussion.

8:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Women are not given due credit for their accomplishments...

That's often true. But here's a site that does give women due credit:

http://www.beautifulwomanhood.org/

8:17:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

I'm going to address as much as time permits. Hopefully, I can get to everything, but I'll address it in order.

You may be able to throw out random verses, but in the words of Bishop William Willimon, you are "no theologian." That is evident from your misinterpretation (and even select quotation) of scripture. You've obviously never had any in-depth study of scripture, nor have you ever bothered to fully read and understand scripture beyond face value or look at the history behind what was written and the authors who wrote it. The great thing about going through seminary (or knowing someone who has), is that you don't have that problem in a theological argument. Unless you can do better than you've been doing, you're not going to win in an argument with me.

Shorn = shaved.

While we're at it, I wonder... Does your wife or girlfriend shave her legs? I also wonder... Have you ever put up a Christmas tree? You should probably read Jeremiah 2, then. (Yes, I'm aware that both situations are out of context, but then, so was your argument. I'm merely applying the same logic to a different situation to make a point as to how ridiculous your selective translation is.)

I'm going to post links to the scripture referenced here, so that anyone can read it. The site I'm linking to offers just about every possible translation (including some that aren't in English) in case someone has a different preference.

You mention that it was a "disgrace" for men to have long hair. Perhaps, then, you would like to explain why Samson was ordered by God not to cut his. Interesting complication to your argument. I believe that you're argument included a reference to 1 Corrinthians 11:1-16.

The verse above says nothing even close to what you described. It is referring to a head covering, such as a burka (sp?), not a hairstyle. And although you referenced it, you obviously overlooked verses 11-12, where it directly states, "In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is mand independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God." This shows an interesting equality to the message. Often, throughout the Bible, these things are referenced. Paul doesn't reference "nature" in verse 14, but the "nature of things," which references culture. (That's one of the problems with looking at only one translation, you miss the verb tenses from Greek to English.) If he were referring to nature, he would have been forgetting some very prominent figures in Biblical literature who were men with long hair. Back in the day, refusing to cut one's hair was considered a testement to the glory of God, a sign that what God created had not been altered. Further, when looking at verse 16 (NLT), Paul even refers to this as a "custom." (Before you again misquote scripture or selectively choose wording, keep in mind that when Jesus was tempted by Satan, scripture was twisted in much the same way. Satan would say, "The scripture says THIS." Jesus would say, "But it also says THIS." For that reason, it is important to look at the WHOLE verse and not just the words that you like.)

1 Corrinthians 14 It's interesting that you would choose to attack my associate pastor, because she happened to write a paper on this very subject while she was studying to become a minister. I also want to personally comment that her ministry has spoken very personally to me and several others and has led many to Christ. Ours is a growing church for a reason. But back to the subject at hand...

When reading ALL of 1 Corrinthians 14, you will see that it is a suggestion for the order of worship for a particular church-- more specificially, the church in Corrinth. (Corrinthians... duh!) The order of worship included (verse 26) a song, a speaker, a testimonial, and even speaking in tongues (not something that is an everyday practice in most churches).

Before I go any further, I need to explain that Paul's letters are... letters. Just as the letters written to the different churches were targeted for specific churches in Revelation, so was this one. In fact, that's exactly the context that they should be taken in-- letters to specific people/groups. Why? Because they are. They are addressed at the beginning, and a salutation is given at the end. This is left intact because it was meant to be read with that exact understanding. That is not to say that the instructions are useless to the rest of us. But the instructions and advice given to one particular group of people may not necessarily be beneficial to another group. It's like saying that if bankruptsy or divorce is a good decision for one person, it is good for everyone. The church in Corinth was experiencing some very specific issues, and these were the solutions for that church as was proposed by Paul.

But here is the kicker: While quoting verse 37, you for some reason decided to leave out the verses around it, and you took the entire verse out of context. Here's what the entire passage says, "Do you think that the knowledge of God's word begins and ends with you Corinthians? Well, you are mistaken! If you claim to be a prophet or think you are very spiritual, you should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself. But if you do not recognize this, you will not be recognized. So, dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues."

In other words, Paul was speaking directly to the people of the Church of Corinth, and he was referring to the fact that they were not allowing thier congregation to speak in tongues. When/if they did, they were doing it improperly. In fact, most of chapter 14 is about speaking in tongues, not limiting the roles of women.

I'd also like to provide some history regarding the Corinthian church. (Most seminary classes go into historical depth because it is necessary to fully understand the context of the scripture.) During that time, women were not educated, and therefore not teachers. (A more interesting, but off-topic, footnote: Those who were educated were usually the equivallent of high price hookers!) There were problems with women (sometimes men, although women are specifically called out because it was more prominent) interrupting the service by asking questions. That is why Paul addressed this issue in particular. Can you imagine being in a modern day worship service, listening to the pastor, and someone stands up to ask a question? It throws off the entire mood! That's why Paul suggested that the women instead wait until they got home so that they could discuss the subject matter with their (more educated) husbands.

Paul also wrote a letter to the Galatians that shows he's no cheuvanist (sp?). In verse 3:28, he states that "you are one in Christ Jesus," and he directly refers to male/female relations.

I have no arguments to your interpretations of John and Matthew. Those are pretty well represented, although they have nothing to do with the passages you quoted before them.

Ms. Murphee, you aren't helping. I understand why you would be upset, but attacking isn't the answer to the situation. That's exactly what Mr. Anonymous seems to want.

Anonymous, I believe that I am offering valid arguments, here. There is no verse that says that a woman can not work outside the home in addition to keeping the household. Otherwise, you would have pointed that out. I find it amusing that you have yet to pose a valid argument. Regardless as to what the Bible commands, you have yet to see that it doesn't LIMIT women to those commands. Otherwise, could you please explain how someone like Deborah ended up judging Israel? You've yet to explore my previous argument of this...

Anonymous, when you say that Baxley refuses to obey God, you seem to be holding a double standard for he male counterparts. Since you seem to have such high standards for your candidates to be able to claim that they love and obey God, or even quote his scripture, could you please at the very least hold those same standards to Mr. Moore, Mr. Siegleman, and Mr. Riley? For that matter, could you please hold those same standards to any human being? I don't think one of us would meet such high standards. Do you?

If such standards were required of every person who preached the gospel, there would be nobody left to teach it. But then, being a woman and being a politician does not qualify as disobeying God.

Once again, I refer to the various women of the Bible who were leaders. Since you apparently don't consider something a valid argument without specific examples, I will give you Deborah and Esther as specific examples. (I can provide more upon request, but I'll let you off the hook with just two for now.) Until you can provide a valid, in-context argument with regard to these two women, both called of God, I'm going to consider any other argument you make as invalid.

6:23:00 PM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

Sorry for the "book" written above. I thought that, in order to provide a thorough argument, the material was necessary.

6:25:00 PM  
Blogger DebbieMurphree said...

Jen, very well stated! I personally choose not to quote Bible texts (although I do know many), but I am sticking to my campaign of PSC and not running for a religious post, therefore I will leave the Bible quotes up to you. You seem to be very knowledgable of the Bible, and I admire that. I don't choose to use religion as my platform, as Moore has. I would rather stick to facts of issues that are pertinent to the consumer. Thank you for pointing out more clarity to Mr. Anonymous.

7:37:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

I don't choose to use religion as my platform, as Moore has. I would rather stick to facts of issues that are pertinent to the consumer.

As well you should. I don't mind when a candidate states their religious affiliation. It shows their background. But my personal belief is that there should be more to a candidate's platform than that. There are far bigger issues that affect us all, and to focus all of your attention on something as individual and personal as religion is to rob time away from those issues.

11:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Christian and feel that the women today must stand up because so many men are just sitting back and not doing their jobs! God has given men jobs to do but they are not doing them so he has called many women to serve in churches as teachers, pastors and other in the church. I have the holy ghost and I follow the spirit and must do what God says to do not man.
Men sat down too long and god is tired of it and he gave women his spirit to witness.
There are many more women today in the world due to wars that has killed many men. Women must stand up in the spirit and let God lead them.
I think that if we women sat back and waited for things to get done today things would never get done. Men depend on women to do a lot of things for them in work places and in the home.
We are human beings, equal in gods eyes, we are all gods children and we should stand up when things are not right and women have every right to do so, I believe this in my spirit. Let God lead us women today to bring others to him and get people saved before he comes back. We are not slaves to men anymore!
I heard a message about women standing up now for God calls us to stand up if God Calls us to do something. So many women are going to church without their husbands so who shall they ask? Respect men as men should respect women and their spirit if God leads a women to do something to bring people to the Lord.
The old testament says that women should ask their husbands about the scriptures but even back then women had done more in the home and went out and hunted for food, cooked , cleaned and when the husband was away hunting the women held down the fort. What if the husband doesn't even attend church? The women as myself have taken my children to church all their lives. There were alot of times my husband had to work or didn't want to go to church so if it wasn't for me , "a women" brought my children to church and taught them in my home to live for the lord. Don't give me this this that women are not doing right when they run for office. I think it is time that women take a stand for their faith and beliefs. Not to knock the male but if it wasn't for women men would be nothing. God blessed the man with the woman so we are blessing others now that we can stand up and speak , teach, and run for public office and share our ideas and feel compassion for people . AFter all women do handle a lot of things around the house. They do bookeeping, office work that most men wouldn't even do for a living. Its a women's job, the male says, So It is a womens job to speak out and let her voice be heard in faith and love , compassion for others.
God help men today to wake up realize women are important and god brought us to this point its time for us now. The last will be first.
WOMEN STAND UP !

8:16:00 AM  
Blogger The Alabama Moderate said...

Above poster, you may find the scriptures that posted above helpful. The bible and Christianity is actually fairly liberating for women. Particularly, the Christian women in Corinth were so liberated that they were breaking with the customs and traditions. Paul was suggesting that they be more compliant with local customs to avoid conflict within the church, because if they were focused on trivial matters like this one, they were unable to focus on the more important matters of Christianity, like the aplication of Christ's teachings to everyday life. You'll notice, though, that in chapter 11, it was apparently not uncommon that women prophesy (read: teach) in the church. Paul only requested that they wear head coverings while doing so. You'll also notice that women often accompanied Jesus and had important roles during his ministry.

References to hairstyles were also made for the same reasons. It was customary for men to have short hair and for women to have longer hair. The main message of the letters to Corinth was to not be so radical from customs and traditions that you are focused on trivial issues instead of important ones.

Further follow-up: Study bibles with footnotes are fun!

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